CHIP-2025-03 Faster Blocks: gathering statements of support (and dissent)

There is an enormous CHIP documented, compiled & discussed over 2 years, full of the justification. You’ll need to address that seriously to have a credible position.

A LOT of people have requested this. As you can see from:

  • The detail/time/care put into the CHIP document
  • The polling at Consensus.cash
  • The various endorsement statements already appearing in this very thread (with more being added daily)
  • Community discussion in Telegram, Twitter, the BCH Podcast etc. if you’ve paid any attention for the last 2 years

If 10 minute blocks suits you, that’s fine. I’m very happy that BCH is serving your needs perfectly and you don’t feel any urgency to change. That’s one BCH adopter we have successfully satisfied. But BCH is not a project built to serve you & you alone.

The rest of your response is not really relevant until you will demonstrate evidence of at least recognising or appreciating the overwhelming volume of evidence from OTHER (not you, other) BCHers that this change is desired, well-researched & popular.

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Jeremy already answered it well; I’d just add a couple of things.

On “a target block time of approximately 10 minutes” as a key feature:

The whitepaper mentions 10 minutes exactly once — as a “suppose” in a back-of-the-envelope header-storage calculation, not as a design commitment. Satoshi’s pre-release code used 15 minutes. So even by your own reference point, 10 minutes was a practical guess, not a promise. There’s a whole section on this: “But Bitcoin Cash Always Had 10-minute Blocks, Will It Still be Bitcoin?”

On “Bitcoin Cash’s superiority should be demonstrable through its properties”:

This is the strongest argument for the CHIP, not against it. Block time is the one property where BCH is slower than essentially every major coin except BTC. Declaring it immutable — for no reason other than “it was in the original design” — means freezing in the one place we’re losing. You’d be making it impossible to demonstrate superiority through properties in exactly the dimension where we’re behind.

On “features no one has requested”:

This is empirically false, and the evidence is in this thread: Maxbit, a regulated Thai brokerage, said 2–3 confirmations is their standard for fast-block coins and they’d trust it more than 0-conf. Selene/Kallisti, BCH-1, and others have all endorsed it. You don’t have to agree with them — but “no one has requested this” is not a position you can hold while the endorsements are piling up in front of you.

On conviction:

You said every user should study the options and reach their own conclusion. Agreed. The CHIP is the study material — two years of analysis, every objection answered, every number sourced. The endorsements in this thread are other people’s conclusions after doing that study. Conviction is what evidence produces. If the evidence doesn’t move you, that’s fine — but that’s not an argument against the change, and it’s not a reason anyone else should be bound by it.

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It would be worth seeking the views of the top three exchanges—Binance, OKX, and Kraken.

Coinbase—the only exchange with a publicly traded stock in the US and the custodian for Grayscale—is also, in my view, a key indicator.

If the feedback is positive, the answer becomes obvious: we should push hard to lock this in for this year.

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I want to push back on the framing here, because it reads like exchange approval is the gate. It isn’t, and it never has been, and never should be. Between upgrades we do “BCH bank runs”, “not your keys, not your coins”, “we will displace fiat!” but now we seek permission and offer them power over our protocol!? This kind of framing bothers me.

Outreach is informative, not decisive. The CHIP’s legitimacy doesn’t come from Binance’s blessing, and it never has. Exchanges don’t get a veto over BCH upgrades — and they’ve never asked us for permission before changing a confirmation policy or a listing. The asymmetry cuts both ways. We don’t owe them deference, and they won’t give us binding statements anyway: we’ve reached out ahead of past CHIPs and the large exchanges simply don’t respond. Their silence has never been the gate before, and it shouldn’t be now.

The forks (2017, 2018, 2020) were special cases. A fork is special: there are two chains, and exchanges have to pick a side, so they follow liquidity and the incumbent ticker. A regular upgrade has one chain. There is no side to pick — an exchange either updates its node or it’s off the network in May. That’s a maintenance task, not a political decision. And the empirical record is clear: exchanges delist over volume, legal risk, or chain splits — not over routine upgrades.

They get the signed release and ~6 months. That’s roughly seven times what Zcash gave its downstream in 2019 (five weeks from mainnet release to activation), and it went through without incident. The exchanges will get the memo the same way they always do — the official release — and they’ll have half a year to prepare. If they wanted to weigh in earlier, the door has been open since the CHIP went public a year ago.

So what is the outreach actually for? Three things, none of which is permission:

  1. Blast-radius mapping. The real concern isn’t Binance — it’s the long tail of smaller exchanges and services that don’t have floors of devs and might not update in time, leaving users with broken experiences. Knowing that ahead of activation lets us target the nudges where they’re needed. That’s logistics, not legitimacy.
  2. The paper trail. If a service misses activation, the outreach record means it’s their failure, not BCH’s. We’ve seen this before: a service goes down on upgrade day, checks its inbox, and finds it was contacted multiple times and dropped the ball. That’s the value of having asked.
  3. Satisfying our own process. Several of the conditional approvers in this thread have made “have you talked to the exchanges?” a condition of their support. We run the outreach to answer them, not to get Binance’s approval.

On “if the feedback is positive, the answer becomes obvious”: the answer is already obvious from the endorsements in this thread — Maxbit, a regulated brokerage, has told us they treat fast-block coins at 2–3 confirmations and trust that more than 0-conf. That’s the headline case, witnessed by a real counterparty. What the exchanges tell us is how much of the benefit is headline versus fallback — not whether the upgrade is right. If Binance keeps low confirmation counts, great, that’s Maxbit’s answer again. If they scale up 10×, the CHIP still stands on variance reduction, DeFi recovery, and the progress-bar effect, none of which depend on exchanges at all. If they say nothing — the most likely outcome — that’s fine too, because their silence has never been the gate.

We’ll keep the outreach going and log it, because it’s cheap and it’s the right thing to do. But we shouldn’t wait for it, and we shouldn’t treat it as binding. The exchanges are stakeholders to inform and de-risk, not arbiters of whether Bitcoin Cash upgrades. That’s been true for every CHIP before this one, and it’s true now.

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Since I am taking a neutral, I mean that if an exchange offers positive incentives,
I would immediately shift to supporting it, rather than waiting for the technical conditions to fully mature.

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Great, thanks for clarifying!

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Maxbit, a regulated brokerage, has told us they treat fast-block coins at 2–3 confirmations and trust that more than 0-conf. That’s the headline case, witnessed by a real counterparty.

This part really should be better known. I had read their statement in passing above and I’m an active participant, but if we have a clear reported case where “less than 10 minutes is fine, as long as there’s blocks”, then that gives significantly more credence to the value of earlier confirmations.

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After careful consideration, I’ve changed my opinion on CHIP-2025-03 (Faster Blocks). I now approve it.

As I stated in my earlier opinion statement:

Reading the security section of the CHIP, the questions and responses on the subject, and private conversations with @bitcoincashautist narrowed my concerns down to specific assertions I thought needed further scrutiny. So I proceeded to work out the details independently, primarily for my own understanding.

Here’s what I found:

The PoW arithmetic is still correct: a single 1-minute block contains 1/10th the chainwork of a 10-minute block. However, in a minority-attacker scenario it doesn’t matter, because at the same number of confirmations the reversal probability depends only on the count, not on chainwork. On the other hand, in the majority-attacker scenario it does matter: redoing the work of one 1-minute block costs 1/10th that of a 10-minute block, but the chainwork needed per minute is unchanged, so just requiring ten 1-minute block confirmations erases that difference.

In the end, I realized what really mattered was whether a 1-minute block results in so much less security that even minority attackers could easily double-spend transactions with 1 confirmation. This turned out not to be the case.

If anyone is interested on the analysis I did, the complete report is here:

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Awesome, thank you so much! It’s so cool to get validation in this way, I was in awe when you first showed me this in private!

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This is the single best two paragraphs written about Bitcoin in the last 5 years.

Everyone should read it as necessary until they understand, there’s a lot in there.

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This is my personal statement and view [not a statement on behalf of OPTN Lab].

I’ve reviewed the CHIP again, and I think @bitcoincashautist has put a lot of quality work into it on multiple fronts, including the proposal itself, the honest evaluation of alternatives, the well-studied effects on light wallets that use BIP37, and the infrastructure around it. I’ve personally worked on integrating SHV/MMR on OPTN Wallet in anticipation of 1-minute blocks.

Overall, I endorse the CHIP. However, implementation readiness, raised by Calin is what concerns me. I’d like to see this happen, but I don’t think there’s any need to rush if more time is needed for review and testing.

So I’m Neutral on activation for now, and will move to Approve once there’s enough confidence that the implementation is ready and safe.

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Personally, for project security and safety reason I would completely disregard anything/everything Amaury has to say.

Guy tried to literally destroy this project and started a competing project, which means he has a disruptive agenda.

Even bringing any kind of his of his opinions into this discussion is dangerous.

I really do hope you know what you are doing, Jeremy.

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In the real non-crypto world, prisons and death sentences exist for a reason: The reason is to isolate the dangerous element and remove the influences of the dangerous element to society.

We should do similar here. So if you want BCH to split and self-destruct in the future, keep bringing opinions of dangerous/openly adversarial people into the discussion.

I literally only sought his opinion on the request of General Protocols (source here), as explained in my post. If you have an issue with desiring Amaury’s opinion, it lies with them not with me.

That said, while I understand the risk you are considering (reintroducing formerly disruptive characters to being considered authoritative in BCH), I don’t think in this case it’s really a big risk.

Amaury (or any other disruptive character, although yes we should be careful who we actively seek out) can only add two types of opinions:

  1. Some poorly researched irrelevant slop. This only discredits the disruptive character even further from relevance. In this case, this is the option Amaury chose.
  2. A well researched response, which shows real issues with the CHIP. That’s helpful for the CHIP and BCH. In this case, Amaury’s standing may rise a little - but it comes from having made a positive contribution to the community (even if just by spitefully wanting to find an issue). Whether this is a risk or not hinges on the BCH community’s ability to maturely and accurately judge the value and intention of his critique. I trust us to be able to do that. However, it also in a small way opens the possibility for Amaury’s redemption. Possibly he sees that being a cooperative contributor accrues some benefit to him in a subject he is passionate about and has a personal moment of growth or change of heart. That would be a very, very, very good thing. If he truly could change his attitude or approach & learn to contribute positively to BCH - it would be a titanic signal to anyone paying attention that BCH truly is a special project able to heal old wounds in order to rebuild network effect.

So I understand the risk, but I think in this case it was more than justified. We’re going to have to take similar risks (and even HAVE taken similar risks) in our previous efforts to rehabilitate BSV supporters, BTC supporters, XEC supporters etc. We’re yet to have a case of a highly disruptive or problematic returnee, which speaks to the strength of the culture in BCH. We can be open to having people look at our project & begin to understand its merits without a need for permanent excommunication in self-protection.

(Note: We weren’t ALWAYS in a position of united strength & positive momentum where we could take those risks. Right after the XEC split and also during/after the CoinFlex fallout are great examples. But right now we are, so it’s a good time to try.)

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It’s always a risk.

See, the intelligent and meritful people are the most dangerous, because they can run circles around less-intelligent people, outsmart them with ease.

I am seriously starting to think we should implement some form of “virtual prison” for people that are deemed a danger to this project.

I don’t think you do.

By giving him platform, you are also automatically increasing his standing in this project, you are basically returning him to a minor “alpha” status, because you said “he has merit”.

I will repeat this again: The evil people with merit are the most dangerous ones.

People follow. And people follow both ethical and unethical types. You have made it almost certain somebody in the community will think about Amaury as a “smart guy” and wish to “be like him”, “look up to him” et cetera. These are automatic and subconscious things, most people cannot control it.

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This is the best part of your post and something we should remember. But still, in this instance the risk was low because it offers no opportunity for continuous engagement and rehabilitation, it was a 1-off for this particular upgrade.

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I would certainly hope :pray:, that for the sake of survival of this project, @BitcoinCashPodcast won’t ever do it again.

That already exists. It’s called social exclusion, it operates informally, and it’s working perfectly fine.

But you should reflect on the fact that most prisons do not jail most people for life, and in fact it is common and expected even that people can and usually are somewhat rehabilitated and released early with signs of good behaviour or improved readiness to return to society.

You’re catastrophising enormously over something that was very very low risk, did not cause any problems, showed a positive willingness by the BCH community to do the best possible work we can with external consultation on our upgrades & hopefully somewhere in the back of Amaury’s mind has moved him forward on his journey of maturity.

I will definitely do this again if a similar situation presents itself. We don’t need less of this, we actually need MORE of this (while we’re in a strong position to be able to handle the incoming attention or responses as a united & positive movement).

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Of what I understand, Amaury is right now considered “stakeholder” in the 1-min block CHIP.

So if that “stakeholder” came here right now and either approved or disapproved of this upgrade, would you

  1. Immediately tell everyone to disregard his opinion
  2. Say his opinion is “noted”
  3. Continue the discussion as if nothing has happened
  4. Appeal to the mods for the removal of the opinion of such a “stakeholder”

?

I would do 4) and perhaps 1) too. What would you do?

Now I retry the same question with

  1. Adam Back
  2. Michael Saylor

I wonder what is your opinion in this matter?